{"id":13575,"date":"2024-06-12T00:52:20","date_gmt":"2024-06-11T21:22:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/?p=13575"},"modified":"2024-06-12T00:52:20","modified_gmt":"2024-06-11T21:22:20","slug":"vanity-of-ali-muhammad-shirazis-bab-claim-and-his-repentance-after-debating-with-the-scholars","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/?p=13575&lang=en","title":{"rendered":"Vanity of Ali Muhammad Shirazi\u2019s (Bab) claim and his repentance after debating with the scholars"},"content":{"rendered":"

Scandal in Debates<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 According to the historical documents, Bab directly debated with his contemporary scholars in Shiraz, Isfahan and Tabriz. After failure, he turned to asking for forgiveness and denial; as confessed by Hussein Yazdi- the writer and assistant of Bab- Ali Muhammad Bab denies all of his claims on pulpit of Vakil mosque, Shiraz in the presence of scholars and people and says specified by Nabil Zarandi, the Baha\u2019i known writer: Damn on whom he\/she calls me<\/strong> the gate for Imam.” [1]<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 After that he turned against his claims for Babism and being the deputy for Imam of the Time (May God hasten his reappearance) after specifying the eternality of Islamic commandments. In Isfahan, Bab evaded answering the scientific questions of the scholars of Isfahan![2]<\/a> <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab’s debate with Nezam Al-Olama in the meeting with Naveruddin Mirza’s prince which ended in the superficial repentance of Bab:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama:\u2026 state your claim in the presence of the scholars of Islam for confirmation or denial. Although I am not of science and out of purpose, my confirmation will be useful. I have three questions to ask you:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 – Are these books written on the basis of tradition, the holy Quran and incantation published across Iran from you or not? Have they compiled by you or attributed to you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: They are from God.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: I am ill-educated. If they are from you, say yes otherwise say no. <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: They are from me.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: You said they were from God. What did you mean. Do you mean you resemble Tour tree? <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: It is admissible for a tree to say I am right. Why isn’t admissible to be said by a lucky person.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nesamul Olama: Were all those voices from the king?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: Mercy on you. It is so.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: You are called Bab\/ the gate. Who, when and where were you called so? What’s the meaning of Bab? Are you satisfied with this name or not?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: This name has been given to me by God. <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: Where? In Kaaba, Jerusalem or Baitul Ma’mour?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: It is a divine name everywhere. <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: Of course, you are satisfied. What’s the meaning of Bab?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: Muhammad Ibn Abdullah said: I am the city of science and Ali is its gate.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: Are you the gate for the science City?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: Yes.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: Thanks God. It is forty years, I am walking to serve one of the gates, but it was impossible. Now, thanks God, he came to me in my land. Let me serve you.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: As if, you are Hajj Mullah Mahmoud?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul olama: Yes.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: You have a great dignity. You should be given a great post.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: I have just it. It is enough for me.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Prince: We submit this office to you who are the gate.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: Narrated by the holy prophet or another sage: In body science, it is asked what’s happened in stomach that indigestion- is happened for a person? <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: I haven’t studied medicine.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Prince: However, you are the gate for sciences and you are saying. I haven’t studied medicine! It is contradictory with your claim.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: It isn’t matter. Are listening and the power of eyesight personage or not?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: Personage.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: So, God becomes numerous and compound. Personage and science are two things. <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: I haven’t studied wisdom<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: What’s the meaning of this tradition:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u0644\u0639\u0646 \u0627\u0644\u0644\u0647 \u0627\u0644\u0639\u064a\u0648\u0646 \u0627\u0644\u062b\u0644\u0627\u062b\u0629 \u0641\u0627\u0646\u0647\u0627 \u0638\u0644\u0645\u062a \u0639\u064a\u0646\u0627\u064b \u0648\u0627\u062d\u062f\u0627\u064b<\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: I don’t Know<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: What should a person do when he\/she is doubtful to perform two units of prayer or three?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: He\/she must assume it two.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Mullah Muhammad Mamaghani: O’ irreligious! You don’t know doubts in prayer, while you are claiming for being the gate!<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: He\/she must assume it three. <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Mullah Muhammad Mamaghani: If it is not two, it will be three.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Alamul Hoda: God has said in the holy Quran that one fifth of the property must be paid in God’s<\/strong> path, but you<\/strong> have said one-third! Why? <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: One third is the half of one-fifth. It isn’t different. (Everybody laughed)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: His Majesty is afflicted gout. What should he do to be cured?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: I don’t know.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: I am the one for whom you are waiting one thousand years. <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: That is, you are Imam of the Time?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: Yes.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: His name is Muhammad Ibn Hassan and his mother’s name is Narjes, but your name is Ali Muhammad and your father and mother’s name are another one. That Excellency’s residing place is Samara, but yours is Shiraz. He is more than one thousand years, but you are less than forty years of age. I haven’t sent you. <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab: Are you claiming for divinity?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Nezamul Olama: Such an Imam wants a god like me! <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So, Bab failed ludicrously debating with the scholars. Then, he wrote a letter of repentance and turned against all of his claims.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Bab’s letter of repentance <\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 The original copy of Bab’s letter of repentance is existent in the library of the Islamic council parliament. Confessed by Fadhlullah Mohtadi- the secretary and writer of Abbas Effendi who turned against Bahaism later on-Babis and Baha’is didn’t want it to be dispersed among people in order for people not to know that Seyyed Bas has turned against his words and statements[3]<\/a> \u201c and for this reason, they have always tried to steal the original document using various methods to vanish it.[4]<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 So, Ali Muhammad Shirazi denied all of his claims like the other false prophets by a single trivial punishment. An issue which hasn’t been existent in the divine prophets’ methods of life at all. This is a clear reason for the falsehood of Bab\u2019s claims.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Source:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Mehdi pour, the doubts about Mahdism in our periods of time, (a criticism on Bahaism), pp.32-41.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

[\u06f1]<\/a> In this regard refer to the Baha’i sources: The summary of Nabil Zarandi’s history, translated by Ishraq Khawari, the national assembly of the faith works, Tehran 1325 S.H., – 1329, p. 103; Badi\u2019a, p.138.<\/strong><\/p>\n

[\u06f2]<\/a> Jem magazine, year: 5, No. 7, Mehr 1356 S.H., p. 501 on, Master Mohit’s article, about Bab and the scholars of Isfahan, and criticizing statements of Baha’i sources.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\n

[\u06f3]<\/a> Documents about Bahaism (second volume of Sobhi’s memoirs), printed by Seyyed Hadi Khorramshahi, p.97<\/strong><\/p>\n

[\u06f4]<\/a> Refer to the book “the Baha’s”, previous, p.224<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Scandal in Debates \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 According to the historical documents, Bab directly debated with his contemporary scholars in Shiraz, Isfahan and Tabriz. After failure, he turned to asking for forgiveness and denial; as confessed by Hussein Yazdi- the writer and assistant of Bab- Ali Muhammad Bab denies all of his claims on pulpit of Vakil mosque, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":13576,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[823,985],"tags":[8277,875,2048,3795,2354,12159],"class_list":["post-13575","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-english-articles","category-slidshow","tag-ali-muhammad-shirazi","tag-claim","tag-debate","tag-repentance","tag-scholars","tag-vanity"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13575","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=13575"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13575\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":13577,"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13575\/revisions\/13577"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/13576"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=13575"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=13575"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/bahaismiran.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=13575"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}